CHAPTER TWO
Chanting for Liberation
A conversation about the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra between Śrīla Prabhupāda and John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison
Montreal Star, June 1969:
John Lennon: From Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Yoko: That’s where we get it from, you know. We’re not denying it.
In September 1969, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, founder-ācārya of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, arrived as a houseguest at Tittenhurst Park, the beautiful 72-acre British estate once owned by John Lennon and later by Ringo Starr. Three or four times a week, the Swami, who later became known to the world as Śrīla Prabhupāda, gave public lectures in a tall, stately building at the northern end of the property a hundred yards from the main house, in which John and Yoko lived.
The building had formerly been used as a hall for chamber music recitals, but now several of Śrīla Prabhupāda’s disciples, who resided along with him in a block of guesthouses on the property, installed a small Deity altar and a podium for Śrīla Prabhupāda. The building never really had a name, but after Śrīla Prabhupāda’s arrival, everyone called it “The Temple.”
On September 14, 1969 John, Yoko, and George Harrison, after enjoying an Indian vegetarian meal prepared by the devotees at The Temple, walked over to Śrīla Prabhupāda’s quarters for their first meeting.
Which Mantra to Chant
Yoko Ono: If Hare Kṛṣṇa is such a strong, powerful mantra, is there any reason to chant anything else? For instance, you talked about songs and different mantras. Is there any point in chanting another song or mantra?
Śrīla Prabhupāda: There are other mantras, but the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is especially recommended for this age. But other Vedic mantras are also chanted. As I told you, the sages would sit with musical instruments, like the tamboura, and chant them. For instance, Nārada Muni [a liberated sage who travels throughout the universe teaching love of God] is always chanting mantras and playing his stringed instrument, the vīṇā. So chanting out loud, with musical instruments, is not a new thing. It’s been done since time immemorial. But the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is especially recommended for this age. This is stated in many Vedic literatures, such as the Brahmāṇḍa Purāṇa”, the Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad, the Agni Purāṇa”, and so forth. And apart from the statements of the Vedic literature, Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself, in the form of Lord Caitanya, preached that everyone should chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. And many people followed Him. When a scientist discovers something, it becomes public property. People may take advantage of it. Similarly, if a mantra has potency, all people should be able to take advantage of it. Why should it remain secret? If a mantra is valuable, it is valuable for everybody. Why should it be for only a particular person?
John Lennon: If all mantras are just the name of God, then whether it’s a secret mantra or an open mantra it’s all the name of God. So it doesn’t really make much difference, does it, which one you sing?
Śrīla Prabhupāda: It does make a difference. For instance, in a drug shop they sell all types of medicines for curing different diseases. But still you have to get a doctor’s prescription in order to get a particular type of medicine. Otherwise, the druggist won’t supply you. You might go to the drug shop and say, “I’m diseased. Please give me any medicine you have.” But the druggist will ask you, “Where is your prescription?”
Prescription for the Age of Kali
Similarly, in this Age of Kali [the present age of quarrel and hypocrisy] the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is prescribed in the śāstras, or scriptures. And the great teacher Caitanya Mahāprabhu, whom we consider an incarnation of God, also prescribed it. Therefore, our principle is that everyone should follow the prescription of the great authorities, and we should follow in their footsteps. That is our business. As stated in the Mahābhārata (Vana-pārva 313.117):
This Vedic mantra says that if you simply try to argue and approach the Absolute Truth, it is very difficult. By argument and reason it is very difficult, because our arguments and reason are limited. And our senses are imperfect. There are many confusing varieties of scriptures, and every philosopher has a different opinion, and unless a philosopher defeats other philosophers, he cannot become recognized as a big philosopher. One theory replaces another, and therefore philosophical speculation will not help us arrive at the Absolute Truth. The Absolute Truth is very secret. So how can one achieve such a secret thing? You simply follow the great personalities who have already achieved success. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophical method is to follow the great personalities, such as Lord Kṛṣṇa, Lord Caitanya, and the great spiritual masters in disciplic succession. Take shelter of bona fide authorities and follow them – that is recommended in the Vedas. That will take you to the ultimate goal.
You Can’t Manufacture a Mantra
In the fourth chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā Śrī Kṛṣṇa says the same thing to Arjuna. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam: In this way, by disciplic succession, the knowledge is coming down. Sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ paran-tapa: But in the course of time the succession was broken. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa says, “I am speaking it to you again.” So a mantra should be received from the disciplic succession. The Vedic injunction is sampradāya-vihinā ye mantrās te niṣphalā matāḥ. If your mantra does not come through the disciplic succession, it will not be effective. Mantrās te niṣphalā. Niṣphalā means that it will not produce the desired result. So the mantra must be received through the proper channel, or it will not act. A mantra cannot be manufactured. It must originate with the Supreme Absolute and come down through the channel of disciplic succession. It has to be received in that way, and only then will it act.
According to our Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy, the mantra is coming down through four channels of disciplic succession: one through Lord Śiva, one through the goddess Lakṣmī, one through Lord Brahmā, and one through the four Kumāras. The same thing comes down through different channels. These are called the four sampradāyas, or disciplic successions. So, one has to take his mantra from one of these four sampradāyas; then only is that mantra active. If we receive the mantra in that way, it will be effective. And if one does not receive his mantra through one of these sampradāya channels, then it will not act; it will not give fruit.
Yoko Ono: If the mantra itself has such power, does it matter where you receive it, where you take it?
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, it does matter. For instance, milk is nutritious. That’s a fact; everyone knows. But if milk is touched by the lips of a serpent, it is no longer nutritious. It becomes poisonous.
Yoko Ono: Well, milk is material.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, it is material. But since you are trying to understand spiritual topics through your material senses, we have to give material examples.
Yoko Ono: Well, no, I don’t think you have to give me the material sense. I mean, the mantra is not material. It should be something spiritual; therefore, I don’t think anybody should be able to spoil it. I wonder if anybody can actually spoil something that isn’t material.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: But if you don’t receive the mantra through the proper channel, it may not really be spiritual.
John Lennon: How would you know, anyway? How are you able to tell? I mean, for any of your disciples or us or anybody else who goes to any spiritual master – how are we to tell if he’s for real or not?
Śrīla Prabhupāda: You shouldn’t go to just any spiritual master.
Who’s a Genuine Guru?
John Lennon: Yes, we should go to a true master. But how are we to tell one from the other?
Śrīla Prabhupāda: It is not that you can go to just any spiritual master. He must be a member of a recognized sampradāya, a particular line of disciplic succession.
John Lennon: But what if one of these masters who’s not in the line says exactly the same thing as one who is? What if he says his mantra is coming from the Vedas and he seems to speak with as much authority as you? He could probably be right. It’s confusing – like having too many fruits on a plate.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: If the mantra is actually coming through a bona fide disciplic succession, then it will have potency.
John Lennon: But the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is the best one?
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yoko Ono: Well, if Hare Kṛṣṇa is the best one, why should we bother to say anything else other than Hare Kṛṣṇa?
Śrīla Prabhupāda: It’s true: you don’t have to bother with anything else. We say that the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is sufficient for one’s perfection, for liberation.
George Harrison: Isn’t it like flowers? Somebody may prefer roses, and somebody may like carnations better. Isn’t it really a matter for the individual devotee to decide? One person may find that Hare Kṛṣṇa is more beneficial to his spiritual progress, and yet another person may find that some other mantra may be more beneficial for him. Isn’t it just a matter of taste, like choosing a flower? They’re all flowers, but some people may like one better than ;another.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: But still there is a distinction. A fragrant rose is considered better than a flower without any scent.
Yoko Ono: In that case, I can’t ...
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Let’s try to understand this flower example.
Yoko Ono: Okay.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: You may be attracted by one flower and I may be attracted by another flower, but among the flowers a distinction can be made. There are many flowers that have no fragrance and many that have fragrance.
Yoko Ono: Is the flower that has fragrance better?
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore, your attraction for a particular flower is not the solution to the question of which is actually better. In the same way, personal attraction is not the solution to choosing the best spiritual process. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Lord Kṛṣṇa says, “As all surrender to Me, I reward them accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Pṛthā.” Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Absolute. If someone wants to enjoy a particular relationship with Him, Kṛṣṇa presents Himself in that way. It’s just like the flower example. You may want a yellow flower, and that flower may not have any fragrance. That flower is there; it’s for you – that’s all. But if someone wants a rose, Kṛṣṇa gives him a rose. You both get the flower of your choice, but when you make a comparative study of which is better, the rose will be considered better.
Yoko Ono: I see a pattern in what you’ve said. For instance, you said that Hare Kṛṣṇa is the most super-powerful word. And if that is true, then why do we bother to utter any other words? I mean, is it necessary? And why do you encourage us, saying that we’re songwriters and all, to write any other song than Hare Kṛṣṇa?
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is the recommended process for cleaning our hearts. So actually one who chants Hare Kṛṣṇa regularly doesn’t have to do anything else. He is already in the correct position. He doesn’t have to read any books.
Yoko Ono: Yes, I agree. So why do you say that it’s all right to write songs, speak, and all that? It’s a waste of time, isn’t it?
Śrīla Prabhupāda: No, it’s not a waste of time. For instance, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu would spend most of His time simply chanting. He was a sannyāsī, a member of the renounced spiritual order of life. So, He was criticized by great sannyāsīs, who said, “You have become a sannyāsī, and yet You do not read the Vedānta-sūtra. You are simply chanting and dancing.” In this way, they criticized His constant chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa. But when Caitanya Mahāprabhu met such stalwart scholars, He did not remain silent. He established the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa by sound arguments based on the Vedic scriptures.
Chanting for Liberation
Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is sufficient for liberation; there is no doubt about it. But if someone wants to understand the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra through philosophy, through study, through Vedānta, then we do not lack information. We have many books. But it is not that the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is somehow insufficient and therefore we are recommending books. The Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is sufficient. But when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was chanting, He sometimes had to meet opposing scholars, such as Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī and Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. And then He was ready to argue with them on the basis of Vedānta. So, we should not be dumb. If someone comes to argue with Vedānta philosophy, then we must be prepared. When we are preaching, many different types of people will come with questions. We should be able to answer them. Otherwise, the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is sufficient. It does not require any education, any reading, or anything else. Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, you get the highest perfection. That’s a fact.