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Savršena znanost

27. veljače 1972.

Bob: What is the meaning of the name Kṛṣṇa?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa means “all-attractive.”

Bob: All-attractive.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa znači „svima privlačan“. Ako Bog nije privlačan svima, kako može biti Bog? Čovjek je značajan kad je privlačan. Zar ne?

Bob: Tako je.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Prema tome, Bog mora biti privlačan, i to svima privlačan. Zato, ako Bog ima ime ili ako Mu želiš dati neko ime, to može biti samo ime „Kṛṣṇa“.

Bob: Zašto jedino ime „Kṛṣṇa“?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Zato što je On svima privlačan. Kṛṣṇa znači „svima privlačan“. Bog nema ime, ali Mu prema Njegovim odlikama dajemo imena. Čovjeka koji je vrlo lijep nazivamo „lijepim“. Onoga tko je vrlo inteligentan nazivamo „pametnim“. Ime se daje prema odlici. Kako je Bog svima privlačan, ime Kṛṣṇa može se odnositi samo na Njega. Kṛṣṇa znači „svima privlačan“. To uključuje sve.

Bob: A što je s imenom koje znači „svemoćan“?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Ako nisi moćan, kako možeš biti svima privlačan? Bog mora biti vrlo lijep. Mora biti vrlo mudar. Mora biti vrlo moćan. Mora biti vrlo slavan.

Śyāmasundara [Śrīla Prabhupāda’s secretary]: The name Kṛṣṇa includes everything.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Everything. He must be very beautiful, He must be very wise, He must be very powerful, He must be very famous … 

Bob: Is Kṛṣṇa attractive to rascals?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh, yes! He was the greatest rascal also.

Bob: How is that?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: [laughing] Because He was always teasing the gopīs.

Śyāmasundara: Teasing?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. Sometimes when Rādhārāṇī would go out, Kṛṣṇa would attack Her, and when She would fall down – “Kṛṣṇa, don’t torture Me in that way” – They would fall down, and Kṛṣṇa would take the opportunity and kiss Her. [He laughs.] So, Rādhārāṇī was very pleased, but superficially Kṛṣṇa was the greatest rascal. So unless rascaldom is in Kṛṣṇa, how could rascaldom exist in the world? Our formula of God is that He is the source of everything. Unless rascaldom is in Kṛṣṇa, it could not be manifest here, because He is the source of everything. But His rascaldom is so nice that everyone worships His rascaldom.

Bob: What about the rascals who are not so nice?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No, rascaldom is not nice, but Kṛṣṇa is absolute. He is God. Therefore His rascaldom is also good. Kṛṣṇa is all-good. God is good.

Bob: Yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Therefore, when He becomes a rascal, that is also good. Rascaldom is not good, but when it is practiced by Kṛṣṇa that rascaldom is also good, because He is absolutely good. This one has to understand.

Bob: Are there some people who do not find Kṛṣṇa attractive?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No. All people will find Him attractive. Who is not attracted? Just give an example: “This man or this living entity is not attracted to Kṛṣṇa.” Just find such a person.

Bob: Somebody who wishes to do things in life that he may feel are wrong but who wishes to gain power or prestige or money may find God unattractive. He may not find God attractive, because God gives him guilt.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No, not God. His attraction is to become powerful. A man wants to become powerful or rich – is it not? But nobody is richer than Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is attractive to him.

Bob: If a person who wants to become rich prays to Kṛṣṇa, will he become rich?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Because Kṛṣṇa is all-powerful, if you pray to Kṛṣṇa to become rich, Kṛṣṇa will make you rich.

Bob: If somebody lives an evil life but prays to become rich, he may still become rich?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. Praying to Kṛṣṇa is not evil. [Chuckling] Somehow or other he prays to Kṛṣṇa, so you cannot say that he is evil.

Bob: Yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ. Have you read it?

Bob: Yes. The Sanskrit I don’t know, but the English I do.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Bob: “Even if the most evil man prays to Me, he will be elevated.”

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as he begins to pray to Kṛṣṇa, that is not evil. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive. It is said in the Vedas that the Absolute Truth, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is the reservoir of all pleasure – raso vai saḥ. Everyone is hankering after someone because he realizes some mellow in it.

Bob: Excuse me?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Some mellow. Suppose a man is drinking. Why is he drinking? He is getting some mellow out of that drinking. A man is hankering after money because by possessing money he gets a mellow out of it.

Bob: What does mellow mean?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: [to Śyāmasundara] How do they define mellow?

Śyāmasundara: Taste, pleasure.

Bob: OK.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Pleasing taste. So the Vedas say raso vai saḥ. The exact translation of mellow is rasa. [Mālatī, Śyāmasundara’s wife, enters with a tray of food.] What is that?

Mālatī: Eggplant, fried.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh! All-attractive! All-attractive! [Laughter.]

Bob: What is a scientist?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: One who knows things as they are.

Bob: He thinks he knows things as they are.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: What?

Bob: He hopes he knows things as they are.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No, he is supposed to know. We approach the scientist because he is supposed to know things correctly. A scientist means one who knows things as they are.

Śyāmasundara: How is Kṛṣṇa the greatest scientist?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Because He knows everything. A scientist is one who knows a subject matter thoroughly. Kṛṣṇa knows everything, so He is the greatest scientist.

Bob: I am presently a science teacher.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, but unless you have perfect knowledge, how can you teach? That is our question.

Bob: Without perfect knowledge, though, you can teach … 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That is cheating; that is not teaching. That is cheating. The scientists say, “There was a chunk, and the creation took place. Perhaps. Maybe.” What is this? Simply cheating! It is not teaching; it is cheating.

Bob: Without perfect knowledge, can I not teach some things? For example, I may … 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: You can teach up to the point you know.

Bob: Yes, but I should not claim to teach more than I know.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, that is cheating.

Śyāmasundara: In other words, he can’t teach the truth with partial knowledge.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not possible for any human being. A human being has imperfect senses. So how can he teach perfect knowledge? Suppose you see the sun as a disc. You have no means to approach the sun. If you say that we can see the sun by telescope and this and that, they are also made by you, and you are imperfect. So how can your machine be perfect? Therefore, your knowledge of the sun is imperfect. So don’t teach about the sun unless you have perfect knowledge. That is cheating.

Bob: But what about teaching that it is supposed that the sun is 93,000,000 miles away?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: As soon as you say “it is supposed,” it is not scientific.

Bob: But I think that almost all science, then, is not scientific.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That is the point!

Bob: All science is based on, you know, suppositions of this or that.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. They are teaching imperfectly. Just like they are advertising so much about the moon. Do you think their knowledge is perfect?

Bob: No.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Then?

Bob: What is the proper duty of the teacher in society? Let us say a science teacher. What should he be doing in the classroom?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Classroom? You should simply teach about Kṛṣṇa.

Bob: He should not teach about … 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No. That will include everything. His aim should be to know Kṛṣṇa.

Bob: Can a scientist teach the science of combining acid and alkali – this kind of science – with Kṛṣṇa as its object?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: How can it be?

Bob: When one studies science, one finds general tendencies of nature, and these general tendencies of nature point to a controlling force … 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That I was explaining the other day. I asked a chemist whether, according to chemical formulas, hydrogen and oxygen linked together become water. Do they not?

Bob: It’s true.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Now, there is a vast amount of water in the Atlantic Ocean and Pacific Ocean. What quantity of chemicals was required?

Bob: How much?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. How many tons?

Bob: Many!

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So who supplied it?

Bob: This was supplied by God.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Somebody must have supplied it.

Bob: Yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So that is science. You can teach like that.

Bob: Should one bother teaching that if you combine acid and alkali they form a neutral?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The same thing. There are so many effervescences. So, who is making them? Who is supplying the acid and alkali?

Bob: They come from the same source as the water.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot manufacture water unless you have hydrogen and oxygen. So, there are vast oceans – not only this Atlantic and Pacific: there are millions of planets, and there are millions of Atlantic and Pacific oceans. So who created this water with hydrogen and oxygen, and how was it supplied? That is our question. Somebody must have supplied it; otherwise how has it come into existence?

Bob: But should it also be taught how you make water from hydrogen and oxygen? The procedure of bringing them together – should this also be taught?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That is secondary. That is not very difficult. Just like Mālatī made this purī [a kind of bread]. So, there is flour, and there is ghee [clarified butter], and she made a purī. But unless there is ghee and flour, where is the chance of making a purī? In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa makes this statement: “Water, earth, air, fire – they are My energies.” What is your body? This external body – that is your energy. Do you know that? Your body is made out of your energy. For example, I am eating … 

Bob: Yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So I am creating some energy, and therefore my body is maintained.

Bob: Oh, I see.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So therefore your body is made out of your energy.

Bob: But when you eat the food, there is energy from the sun in the food.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So, I am giving an example. I am creating some energy by digesting the food, and that is maintaining my body. If your energy supply is not proper, then your body becomes weak or unhealthy. Your body is made out of your own energy. Similarly, this gigantic cosmic body – the universe – is made of Kṛṣṇa’s energy. How can you deny it? As your body is made out of your energy, so the universal body must be made by somebody’s energy. That is Kṛṣṇa.

Bob: I’ll have to think about it to follow that.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: What is to follow? It is a fact. [He laughs.] Your hair is growing daily. Why? Because you have some energy.

Bob: The energy I obtain from my food.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Somehow or other you have obtained that energy! And through that energy your hair is growing. So if your body is manufactured by your energy, similarly the whole gigantic manifestation is made of God’s energy. It is a fact! It is not your energy.

Bob: Yes. Oh, I see that.

A devotee: Just like – aren’t the planets in this universe the sun’s energy – a product of the sun’s energy?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, but who produced the sun? That is Kṛṣṇa’s energy. The sun is simply heat, and Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo ’nalo vāyuḥ:Anala – heat – that is My energy.” The sun is the representation of the heating energy of Kṛṣṇa. It is not your energy. You cannot say, “The sun is made by me.” But somebody must have made it, and Kṛṣṇa says that He did. So, we believe Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are Kṛṣṇaites.

Bob: Kṛṣṇaites?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. And therefore our knowledge is perfect. If I say that heat is the energy of Kṛṣṇa, you cannot deny it, because it is not your energy. In your body there is some certain amount of heat. Similarly, the sun’s heat is someone’s energy. And who is that person? That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, “Yes, it is My energy.” So my knowledge is perfect. Because I take the version of the greatest scientist, I am the greatest scientist. I may be a fool personally, but because I take knowledge from the greatest scientist, I am the greatest scientist. I have no difficulty.

Bob: Excuse me?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: I have no difficulty in becoming the greatest scientist because I take knowledge from the greatest scientist. We accept what Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, “This earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence, and ego – they are My eight separated energies.”

Bob: They are separated energies?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this milk. What is this milk? The separated energy of the cow. [Śyāmasundara and Bob, stunned, laugh in realization.] Is it not? It is the manifestation of the separated energy of the cow.

Śyāmasundara: Is it like a by-product?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bob: So, what is the significance of this energy’s being separated from Kṛṣṇa?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: “Separated” means that this is made out of the body of the cow but it is not the cow. That is separation.

Bob: So, this earth and all is made out of Kṛṣṇa but it is not Kṛṣṇa?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: It is not Kṛṣṇa. Or, you can say it is Kṛṣṇa and not Kṛṣṇa simultaneously. That is our philosophy – one and different. You cannot say that the things of this world are different from Kṛṣṇa, because without Kṛṣṇa they have no existence. At the same time, you cannot say, “Then let me worship water. Why worship Kṛṣṇa?” The pantheists say that because everything is God, whatever we do is God worship. This is Māyāvāda philosophy – that because everything is made of God’s energy, therefore everything is God. But our philosophy is that everything is God but also not God.

Bob: Is there anything on earth that is God?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. In one sense everything here is God because everything is made out of the energy of God. But that does not mean that by worshipping anything you are worshipping God.

Bob: So what is on earth that is not māyā [illusion]?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Māyā means “energy.”

Bob: It means energy?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. And another meaning of māyā is “illusion.” So foolish persons accept the energy as the energetic. That is māyā. Suppose the sunshine enters your room. Sunshine is the energy of the sun, but simply because the sunshine enters your room you cannot say that the sun has entered. If the sun itself enters your room, then your room and yourself – everything – will be finished. Immediately. You will not have the leisure to understand that the sun has entered. Is it not?

Bob: It is so.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Still, you cannot say that sunshine is not the sun. Without the sun, where is the sunshine? But at the same time, it is not the sun. It is the sun and not the sun – both. That is our philosophy. Acintya-bhedābheda – inconceivable difference and nondifference. In the material sense, you cannot conceive that a thing is simultaneously positive and negative. But that is the spiritual reality. And because everything is Kṛṣṇa’s energy, Kṛṣṇa can manifest Himself from any energy. Therefore, when we worship Kṛṣṇa in a form made of something – of earth, stone, metal, or something like that – that is Kṛṣṇa. You cannot say that it is not Kṛṣṇa. When we worship this metal form of Kṛṣṇa [the Deity form in the temple], that is Kṛṣṇa. That’s a fact, because metal is an energy of Kṛṣṇa’s. Therefore, it is nondifferent from Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is so powerful that He can present Himself fully in His energy. So this Deity worship is not heathenism. It is actually worship of God, provided you know the process.

Bob: If you know the process, then the Deity becomes Kṛṣṇa?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Not becomes – it is Kṛṣṇa.

Bob: The Deity is Kṛṣṇa, but only if you know the process?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this electric wire – it is electricity. One who knows the process can derive electricity out of it.

Śyāmasundara: Otherwise it’s just wire.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Just wire.

Bob: So if I build a statue of Kṛṣṇa, it is not Kṛṣṇa unless … 

Śrīla Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa. But you have to know the process of understanding that it is Kṛṣṇa. It is Kṛṣṇa.

Bob: It is not just earth and mud.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No. Earth has no separate existence without Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, “Earth is My energy.” You cannot separate the energy from the energetic. It is not possible. You cannot separate heat from fire. Still, fire is different from the heat, and heat is different from the fire. You are feeling heat; that does not mean you are touching fire. Fire, in spite of emanating heat, keeps its identity.

Similarly, although Kṛṣṇa, by His different energies, is creating everything, He remains Kṛṣṇa. The Māyāvādī philosophers think that if Kṛṣṇa is everything, then Kṛṣṇa’s separate identity is lost. That is material thinking. For example, by my drinking this milk, little by little, when I finish there is no more milk; it has gone to my belly. Kṛṣṇa is not like that. He is omnipotent. We are utilizing His energy continually; still He is there, present.

A crude example: a man begets many children, but the man is still there. It’s not that because he has produced many children he is finished. Similarly, God, or Kṛṣṇa, in spite of His unlimited number of children, is still there. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate: “Because He is the Complete Whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance.” This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is never finished. Kṛṣṇa is so powerful. Therefore He is all-attractive. This is one side of the display of Kṛṣṇa’s energy. Similarly, He has unlimited energies. This study of Kṛṣṇa’s energy is only one side, or a portion only. So in this way, if you go on studying Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not a bogus thing – “maybe,” “perhaps not.” Absolutely! It is!

Śyāmasundara: And the study itself is never finished.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No. How can it be? Kṛṣṇa has unlimited energy.

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